I've read many comments here that suggest that RBC may insist on a probated will, and I'm wondering if this process is truly necessary? The simple answer is that the people in the branch have no idea how to deal with estates. Yes, you should should go to the bank to set up an estate account, and no you shouldn't need probate to do that. To me, this is more of a bank policy question than a legal question. Having said that, there could be other factors that might affect the situation (there always are). All the estate assets have since been liquidated and deposited to the CIBC estate account, and now CIBC has locked the funds and is refusing to distribute the funds until such time as each and every beneficiary appears at a branch of CIBC, identifies themselves with the previously provided ID's and signs the account application. Do you mind if I place your article on my blog and reference your site to it?Cheers,Larosabelle, Hi Larosabelle,Thanks! The other financial company with all the investments left, did not require probate and it was a significant sum. The alberta bank is insisting on probate. Do I have to go open an estate account for,this one cheque. As I said, not all banks are responding properly to the change in the law (from 2007) and some are paying out joint bank accounts between parent and child to the child. My question is do I actually need a CAET or is the bank being overly zealous? While I find this admirable in spirit, I am concerned as an executor whether executors can in fact make gifts that are not specifically covered in the will, especially as there are other residual beneficiaries involved. Before closing an account, it is important to check to see if there are any automatic payments from or to the account. He banked with Scotiabank, and they are telling me that they will not transfer money from his accounts into an estate account with another financial institution. Thanks. Mom's bank had temporarily closed here in this town due to the Covid-19 so I would have to go to the City talk to them in the branch. But bank policy about the probate requirement is made at the higher levels and the local branches only have so much flexibility. I need to set up an estate account for him. I have been calling the bank, and getting no answer. You then take the drafts and deposit them into the estate account. "Is that the case in every province or are their provincial differences? Should we be concerned? Please advise. The client is now deceased and her power of attorney signed the cheque although I do not believe it was a joint account as only the deceased name is on the cheque. What if the deceased's will names you as the "Estate Trustee"?I'm starting to work on settling my mother's estate and one of her financial institutions is asking for a CAET "Certificate of Appointment as Estate Trustee". My mom's name was on the deed of the house at one time but then at some point her name was removed as she was purchasing another house for investment purposes. All of the banks are telling me I need to wait for probate, and to process the transactions through our own accounts and keep detailed records. On the other hand, if you stepped down properly, who became the executor in your place? Yep. TD does not and all transactions must be processed in person. Just be sure to keep detailed records of what came in and how you used the funds so that you can explain it all later.Lynne, My mother was killed suddenly and although she requested I be her executor she neglected to sign her will properly. My uncle passed away and put my cousin and I as executor's. I have already paid the probate fee on the lesser amount. If anyone goes to jail or pays a fine or whatever else the fallout might be, again, that's you, not the bank. The mistake is just as much yours, as a person under a POA instructing them to do something you weren't allowed to do in the first place.I know this probably isn't the answer you wanted, but that's how I see it.Lynne, Hi Lynne. The judge has discretion to deal with the will. Our property is the same size. If so, it will pose quite a hardship on her as a student. My sister was POA for mom. What is the harm of just dividing the money between the two of us and paying the last few estate bills from our own accounts? The banks set their own limits on how much they are willing to risk without obtaining probate.Lynne. There is no property, only accounts/investments. recently received a cheque made out to the estate and attention of me"Jane Doe" can I deposit this cheque into my personal account or does it have to be deposited intorbhe estate account. My 29year old son died suddenly. Some are told they need the original will, many are told they have to get probate first, and some are told they need the consent of beneficiaries. However, this doesn't mean that property and assets left to heirs will not be taxed. I received a letter to say that Mom didn't qualify for the Canada Pension Death Benefit as she didn't pay in for enough years. Sometimes not applying to administer the estate is the best strategy.Lynne. There is another 400,000.00 in GIC's and a house in my father's name. My mom's estate is about $325,000 cash, which is being managed by Wood Gundy. That is my main concern now. If he will not clean it up voluntarily, you might consider asking the court to remove him. It seems somewhat ridiculous. This might be repairing and restoring or it might not. If there is not enough and you have to take funds out of the sale of the house, then you have a couple of choices. If you are the administrator, who has set up the estate account?Is the account actually an estate account, or is it simply your sister's account that was in place at the time she died? TD bank says it can take "two, three sometimes even six months" to set up an Estate Account for me. My question is does the bank have to wait for the probate to go through before selling the investments? I have 2 questions. I am the beneficiary to the residual. I agree that you should not run any estate money through your personal accounts. I (probate granted estate trustee with a Will, and I am also the residuary beneficiary) opened 2 estate accounts for my mother's estate last year. A joint account is not meant to be used to avoid probate so the courts have cracked down on it.In my view, given all of what I've said here, no, you'd never get them to pay the probate fee. What do I need to do to prove that I am the only beneficiary?thanks. FIL was not natt8ed, Julie, what does "FIL was not natt8ed" mean?Lynne. If you did not obtain the permission of the court to step down, you are still the executor. I can completely sympathize with your situation because I have my own ongoing battles with banks' legal departments on my client files.Whether or not the people at the legal department can read the signatures, the judge of the probate court could, and did. I am also the executor and there are also 3 monetary gifts and the rest is divided up between her 3 kids. I opinion, you don't go to RBC if you have a non-probated Will. Lynne. I am also sole executor of the will. Please advise, No, you don't have to wait for probate. To me, there seems little reason to use a lawyer to handle the estate account, as he obviously should be expected to charge fees for this service. I have generated expense report for the Estate, would that be sufficient for the bank to issue me payment?Thank you, You can repay yourself reasonable expenses without any prior approval from anyone. Upon her death, the money would avoid probate and be distributed. Your mother's money wasn't safe because your brother is a crook. My sister and I are co-executors of our fathers will. As trustee, I am unable to distribute or transfer the funds of the Estate. Can Laurentienne refuse to transfer the funds from my decesased uncle's account to BMO? All properties were sold and bills paid and income tax filed. I was told we can't do this unless we have a probabated will. Hello Lynne, If an executor is aware that the total value of an estate is over $100k, but values are from multiple sources (i.e. I would like to reference your site to them. Plug in values from the estate account into the appropriate schedule under the correct category. If you want to discuss the case with me, call my office at 79-221-5511 and make an appointment for a telephone conference at your convenience. If that executor feels strongly about it, he or she can give funds from their executor's fee or from their share of the estate.Lynne. Estate settlement services are offered through National Bank subsidiaries. Yes, all executors' names must be on it. 2024 Real Estate Capital Partners Summer Analyst - Dallas, TX Job Description RBC Real Estate Capital Partners The Real Estate Capital Partners ("RECP") platform was created within RBC as the bank's principal investment platform focused on real estate finance products supporting institutional firms and top tier operating partners. It is not unusual at all for a bank to insist on having a grant of probate before releasing funds. What is my recourse as an executor? Hi Lynne, my deceased father's will dated 2015 names my Mother as a sole beneficiary of his entire estate, however does not list every single account he had. Lynne. In my view, you are doing exactly what is supposed to happen - even though the accounts are in joint names, you are treating the accounts as assets of the estate. So i'm very confused. we are now waiting to hear from CRA, and if everything is ok he will apply for clearance certificate. I assume what is going on is that your husband was the sole owner of the funds. I know this is an old topic, but I have a question. If that gets around, that bank is going to see every cent owned by a deceased person put into estate accounts in other banks that are more reasonable.Lynne. Excellent blog and thank you for writing the Self-Counsel press document "How Executors Avoid Personal Liability" in BC, published in 2014. His RRSP beneficiary form completed in 2011 lists my sister and me as his beneficiaries (oversight). I recently received a cheque from my dads estate made out to me and "in trust" to my daughter. Ask them to pay the bill from his chequing account. The first stage of estate planning is preparation. Do I actually need any sort of approval? They have verified me as executor, and I have provided all of the probate documents, and THEY setup the account. Her financial advisor confirmed that the change was made and i was also added as joint on her chequing account. If the house can sell at a higher price after repairs and restoration is there a duty to the beneficiaries to wait until it's repaired before selling? Our lawyer said there was no need to probate as the will clearly spells out who the beneficiary is and there is only the savings account which would be used to pay expenses and the rest to the beneficiary. I was then told a few months ago that it reverted back to the estate because the change was made too close to her death and I have been asking for answers on this for months and finally received a reply that there were more recent documents that changed it back to the estate. One lawyer told my mother, that she had a case against the three banks, but of course she was dying and had no money except for her pension, which he took, convincing her he had made a deal for my brother to return the money, and pay thousands in legal fees, to the lawyer. Please let me know. There are two other executors and decisions are to be made unanimously. the cheque was made payable to the estate. I'm very sorry to hear about your son. Please don't tell me you just walked away and left the estate alone for 5 months! Earn a $300 welcome bonus with a new bank account 2. Went in to my local branch to start distributing funds to the beneficiaries when to my utter shock was informed the Probate papers had been rejected by the Estate Dept's legal wing due to the inability to read to signatures on the will, thus not allowing me to touch any of the funds. The last bank draft amount is large of course but way under 100K as in total that's approximately what each would get after taxes and expenses. My mother passed away January 19, 2020. We were able to open up an estate account at the Bank of Montreal and transfer the funds from her account without going through probate. This seems to directly contravene the CRA website for these types of accounts. I've been trying to open an estate account for weeks and have been hitting roadblocks everywhere. My recently deceased mother had create a trust through Wood Gundy for my daughter to help her through university. I am the sole executor and beneficiary of my deceased husband. Hi Lynne,My mother passed away in Aug 2018. Lynne, Hi Lynne,I am being assigned as an executor for my grandma's estate. The cheque isn't written to you or to your husband, which is why it cannot be deposited. Just recently she sent everyone $50,000.00 cheques, from her bank account, so we could get some of the proceeds now rather waiting the 4 years.An Executor depositing Estate money into there own personal account just doesn't seem right! Can the Courts force her to replace the lost bank draft? That's interesting. In my experience, none of the banks are very good at handling estates. No spouse. She was living with me and we have a joint bank account. There are 5 of us siblings and my 4 siblings have all agreed that I would take care of Mom's account. How can he sign papers, cheques if he is not physically able to do so? Probate is slow because her state pension came from UK along with a small occupational pension. Will i need a letter of administration to open an estate account or will my bank let me sign a letter of indemnity? As of now he has 2000.00 in the estate account and I have a death benefit cheque to deposit. Scotiabank's Getting There Savings Program for Youth is one of the best youth accounts in the country. My mom had around $800 000 of chequing and investment accounts. My sister now refuses to sign a bond of indemnity to the bank to have it replaced even though I went as far as convincing the bank to put my name on the bond too, which they don't have to. If they won't transfer the funds directly, empty the accounts by having the bank prepare drafts written to the estate. However, to get the balance or the transactions, I have to call in and get whatever information I can. I am an only child. I'd suggest sitting in with your banking officer and having a chat. My question is when can I close the estate accounts? On July 21, I escalated my complaint to that bank's ombudsman. Something like that might make a bank reluctant to accept the will without the backing of the court. i still have a joint back account that is open. Since I am solely responsible for doing this, am I able to disburse some of the funds right away as long as enough is left in the account to cover income tax and any unpaid bills? So out of her account I paid for her last medications so it is a fully paid now. I know, everyone thinks that this joint account thing works, but they find out differently when the parent passes away. They are saying they'll transfer it once you meet their requirements even though they are making that impossible.Consider making an appointment with the branch manager. If you are not applying for probate for any other reason, I don't see why you would apply for it because of a small cheque. That's very heavy-handed of them! My husband passed away recently without a will. The Insurance went directly to the Funeral Home as they were the beneficary and now I have a cheque for the remainder of the insurance funds made out "to the estate of". He has a spouse. Estate Plan: A written document that outlines an individual's strategy for the disposition and administration of their property at their death, incapacity or total disability. As far as the bank is concerned, your father's account is still HIS account and not an estate account until the probate has come through. My father was a street person, so they helped to budget his money. He had all the necessary documents but I guess in their mind the estate was not worth their time. At least, that's their point of view. Lynne. Don't let them dictate what is appropriate for you to do, when you are the only one who bears responsibility for the funds.Lynne. The executor will also need to . He most likely didn't have a will at his age, so his beneficiary would be his wife, and if he didn't have a wife then his children, and if he didn't have children, then his parents.Lynne. He had a will.. We listen to you and create a comprehensive plan that sets out how you will transition your wealth. Hi Boobes,Trying to understand your question. It's as if the deceased were being taxed, rather than their heirs. Canadian Western Bank (CWB) is the only full-service bank in Canada with a strategic focus to meet the unique financial needs of businesses and their owners. The lawyer suggested it might be more efficient to use the law firm's trust accounts. I want to pay his bills first and then divide up whats left when I know there are no more debts to pay. A couple of months pass until her house was sold and the sale closed a week ago. The will states she was leaving everything (her house, bank accounts and investments ) to my mom and appointing me as executor. Do I just carry on as executor of the will or should I be administrator? Thank you. The debts of an estate are paid only to the extent that the estate (NOT the executor) has the funds to pay them.So, yes the executor does have access to estate funds right away, but no, a beneficiary does not. Everything else of my husbands, all accounts, homes,, RRSP's etc. Hoping you can answer my question. My question is:What is the best method of paying and having proof that the payment was given to beneficiary? There isn't an estate department in the branches, but there is one in Toronto.If you have Letters of Administration, you now have the right to collect the deceased's assets. I was told by a local lawyer that if there were no assets that there would be no point spending approximately $3500.00 dollars to become an administrator. All the risk of the account falls on the executor, not on the bank. Hello Lynn,I'm setting up an estate account for my mother. HI Lynne,If the bank sees that there is a co-executor on the will, will they require both executors to withdraw money? She has no real assets. Perhaps you think it's ridiculous, but banks and most other people think it's a good idea not to let a deceased person's family treat the bank account as his or her own. They did have one joint account. Per the CRA website a T4RRSP/T4LIF/T4RRIF should be issued showing fair market value on date of deat, and interest earned from DOD until the end of the year. The cheque is not payable to your mom, but to her estate. What can I do? It's never speedy at the best of times, but it will be longer if there is confusion over who is supplying what papers.Lynne, Hi Lynne,My Step daughter has an estate check for her and my son. Lawyer Trust account and then endorse deposits to it and then disburse through it?Look forward to some feed back and thanks. I have some Estate litigation lawyers names but want to know if I can realistically get her to replace that cheque so I can have my money. Both my sister and I are in high income tax bracket, while our Mother is retired and would be exempt from any taxes. I've looked everywhere about the time to disburse Estate proceeds and the longest I can come up with is 24 months, or so??? Or, if the primary account holder of your joint bank account has recently passed away, we can assist you in determining your entitlement, if any, to the account assets. The sole real asses, a condo, sold in December of 2018. Is it really the case that I can't get this information if the PEOPLE aren't available? I have Mom's taxes done for this year. I went to another bank and they also said no. Meanwhile my brother received it but I did not. None of that is true and I seriously have to wonder if banks have anyone working there who has any idea what is going on. The banks have always agreed to this (with only one exception) because the funds aren't going to the executor or anyone else besides the court. Because the cheque is written to your father's estate, it wasn't a part of the joint bank account and won't pass automatically to your mother.The bank's interest is, of course, to minimize its own risk in releasing this money to your mother. Your husband's estate is separate from him. According to law, that was his wish. Thanks! Your summary here seems to say that you've really wrapped up everything except for that final tax bill, so there is no reason for you to have two accounts open anymore.As for resistance from the bank, there shouldn't be any. This is an on-going business with on-going income and bills that need to be paid. She is also the executor, which means that ultimately she is the one who will take responsibility for the payment of the funds.So, what is their risk? The money belongs in his estate, which has to be used to pay off any debts or taxes he might owe. Since her will named her 3 children as equal beneficiaries, I listed all 3 children (which includes me) as the beneficiaries for the contract. Given that the amount of funds in question is substantial, I wouldn't be surprised if they tell you they want probate.The bank might give your mother a break on this requirement, especially if she continues to keep all of her investments and accounts with them.Lynne. I am both executor of her "estate", as well as POA and sole beneficiary. The estate accounts usually contain the amount of compensation claimed by the executor. Sure your mother is a qualified beneficiary but she wasn't named so it doesn't make any difference. Not every will is probated, and the banks are well aware of that, particularly if some of your joint assets were held there. My sister lives in the same province as my deceased father. You said they are waiting for a form to be received at the bank, but from whom? Hi Lynne, our mother passed away in February this year. All he did was tell the banks that she had terminal cancer,(one bank employee stated she was told, he was consolidating my mother's assets, she called their lawyer, who told them it was okay to give him the money) and they released the money, prior to her death. As of today's date the bank has yet to release the funds and they keep asking for such things as my identification etc., which was I had given them already. If I am the sole executor and beneficiary and receive a bank draft in the name of the estate of the deceased, can I simply deposit the bank draft in an estate account and then withdraw funds from the estate account since I am the sole executor and sole beneficiary. Can I open an estate account and deposit his cheque into it. The other is to ask the funeral home to wait until the house sells. When the final payouts are made after the tax clearance certificate is received. Thanks for your help. She might have received wrong advice from a lawyer or from a banker. Lynne. This meant the assets did not go through the Will, nor to my brother, yet all three banks released, the funds to my brother (2 banks, within hours of the day he and his daughter changed the POA to remove me, and just make it the two of them) it was almost a year, before my mother found out the POA had been changed, as she never asked for it to be changed. Sat-Sun 8 a.m.-8 p.m. ); Your joint executors might have a strained or non-existent . He had no assets. Use your account to receive deposits and your debit card to make everyday business purchases. I hope that things weren't as loosely organized as your letter suggests. When I do here final tax return for this year, I believe she is only entitled to Ontario tax credits and GST. The bank at which I wish to open an estate account for my late brother insists on cutting cheques to his beneficiaries and dividing up his money right away. Now, at the 11th hour, she wants to be compensated for administering the estate, which we both did, but she feels she is entitled to more than me and I disagree. I asked to see the documents and they refused to show them to me and also refused to give me a contact name and number of the registered office because I am not a member of the credit union. You're in charge of the account, not them. That is why the bank won't help you. Will I need to go to a bank and set up an estate account and can I do this without needing probate? Nobody cares whether the legal department people can read them. After it is all said and done the money will be divided between all 5 of us. This gets more frustrating by the day as I hear more and more stories of banks requiring random and irrelevant paperwork for estates.If they are being obstructive they obviously don't want your business so why not take it elsewhere. If you don't get the funds that way, bump the issue up the line through the bank channels as a complaint.Lynne. Clip: "If you're an executor, however, you can open the [estate] account at any time once you take charge of the estate. You need to realize that if this goes sideways, YOU are the one who will get the blame, not them. Thank you for your answer! Your blog is very informativeThank you. One is in C$ and one in US$ to handle any subsequent legacy dividends from her investments, before I could get them organized, transferred to me, and sold to cash. Is it different when somebody has no chequing/savings accounts? It's not what they're used to, I expect, but the law should not require you to get probate.Lynne. There is enough money in the account to pay the lump sum payments and still cover any surprises that may come up before final tax clearance is issued. If it is only bank policy and not law, however, I am going to protest this, as my brother was laid off a while back and could really use his share of the funds now. So what I'm saying is that they have no reason to try to supervise what you're doing once you have provided the proof that you're the executor. It makes sense from their perspective to make sure they have the right executor. No, I don't think you can deposit it to your personal account or cash it. By this I mean a proper account set up, funds properly deposited, interest properly paid to the account, nobody else with access to it, and a full, accurate accounting of every penny. I would like to make a full distribution of the estate proceeds without waiting for her 2018 taxes to be filed next year. My mother learned the hard way that her money was not as 'safe' in the banks as she thought. Lynne. How can I get them to allow me to do this. She isn't in the running here. The probate was finished March 9 and that same day I gave the probate papers to the bank. My context for the question was a little different: an estate account with two trustees specified in the will who are to pay bills for someone in a house who is not being given direct access to the money. If your mother "had nothing", there should be almost nothing for an executor to do, so acting as executor shouldn't actually be much bother.I find it really frustrating that people will wash their hands of all work and responsibility for their parents except when it comes to getting some money out of it.Lynne. What should I do? The person you choose to administer your estate will use the account's funds to settle your debts, pay taxes and distribute assets. In the next breath the employee told the other executor, the old account is now yours and you can take the Money and run. My mother maintains the joints account she had with my grandmother who passed away 4 years ago. So with Mom's money and the estate cheque it would be around $5,000. . Is there a specific issue or problem or situation in your case that would be best served by having the lawyer control the funds? I can see them wanting you to show that you're the executor of the estate but as for requiring the original will, no I don't see it.You can just accept the requirement and let them copy it, or go somewhere else.The time is ripe for a trust company, credit union, or some small bank to fill this gap for consumers.Lynne, Two concerns: 1 - Our brother is the executor of fathers estate (death was Oct/17) of 1 to 1.5 million. Try going to the bank where your son had his accounts, since they will have records of him, etc. The ONLY cheque to come in was a refund from the cable company (5 months after I cancelled her account, PRIOR to her passing), and it is made payable to her estate, with my name and address underneath. No, no, no.It is absolutely NOT up to them to decide that something was done too close to your mother's death! We went to a lawyer to arrange probate for my Aunt's Estate, and were planning to go to a bank to set up an estate bank account. My mother passed away in mid-March. Find more information at Canada Pension Plan Death Benefits, or call Service Canada at 1-800-277-9914. An Estate account is a different kind of account - it is a new account opened after someone has passed away, into which the Executor deposits the deceased person's money, from which the Executor pays the deceased person's debts and bills, and from which the Executor ultimately distributes funds to . The problem was resolved in a day after I fired off a couple of nasty emails to RBC's client centre, Trust wing and Ombudsman. Perhaps the house would fetch more if it were repaired and restored, but the executors will have to balance that off against the cost of repairs, the cost of insurance and property tax during that time, the odds that the market will stay strong, how much of a gain in price there is likely to be, and the patience (or lack of it) on the part of the beneficiaries. My sister and I would like this account to be settled to our Mother's RRSP as she is a Qualified Beneficiary and will not be paying taxes on it. What would be the purpose of such a designation if people could just ignore them?I'm not an accountant, but my understanding is that the RRSP will be fully taxable when it is paid into the estate.

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