-Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. As solutions to old problems were learned, some of the same Box, Paperwork & Accessories:The rifle has a canvas sling attached. The stock shows several scrapes & scratches. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. What are you basing your question on? There is light erosion at the muzzle. The bolt is marked SG on the right lug which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 36). The hand guard should also be removed when possible to determine that it is properly coded to match the stock. DIV. The M2 Carbine had a selective fire capability i.e. full auto. Neither the M1 Rifle or the M1 Carbine had a selective fire capability. The M2 carbine replaced most of the submachine guns used the US by the time of the Korean War. This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. At least one document has been found that indicates Saginaw received Ordnance SG on left side of some receivers, not all. There are four basic types of markings which may or may not be found on the U.S. Carbine stocks. I have some other shooters so this one has been a safe queen. I'm sure it's not all original. In all, more than 6.5 million M1 Carbines were produced between September 1941 and August 1945, making it one of the most prolific arms of World War II. After WWII many stocks & handguards did not have a manufacturers mark. The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which is a Saginaw Gear mark (page 65). Thank you. What does a 10,000 dollar insulator look like? The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. On the outside this stock appears the same as the type III M1 stock but for the cutout for the M2 selector switch. The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. How much is a CMP Garand worth? A M1 GARAND rifle is currently worth an average price of $2,024.47 new and $1,615.82 used . How much is an M1 Garand in 2020? M1C Garand Sniper Model M2 selector switch, it was a type III stock manufactured by Winchester or Inland prior to with Inlands war effort. Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings. It is a rare M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of being all matching. CARBINE / CAL. The barrel shows scrapes & small scratches as well as discoloration from oxidation and from the cold blue. My IP is in the first serial block--1776xxx. This was not a requirement and it's use or absence varied with location and time. The buttplate shows light scrapes & some discoloration along the edge. Although additional woods were approved it does not appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch, or Cherry. I recently picked up an M1 Carbine, manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors. ): B [circled] (I've seen some cases of 100 that were marked Winchester, but packed with these "B" magazines-- could they be a subcontract from Bridgeport?) SIG Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO. Barrel Date: September, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. To get better and faster responses and opinions. Resulting in the change of the design to the type V stock. I'm sure it's not all original. S-C [stamped sideways] O-S [in curved type] SI SL [circled] They were located in different cities. M1 Carbine Markings Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. The sling well is marked RSG which was used bySaginaw SG, Irwin-Pedersen, and Saginaw Gear(page 108 109). Most were of the flat top variety although the rounded bolts came into use by a few makers before production ceased. Yes this is correct 100% stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https://app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc. Free shipping for many products! The Carbine Collectors Club. A few unconverted type III stocks absent the bridge have Carbines that have one of these serial numbers may be an Engineering prototype, a "presentation" carbine, or both. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. If you choose to do so please This included a few of the previous Engineering carbines no longer needed. Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan. A little history of Saginaw (S.G.) and its carbines. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. The serial number would make it an early one too. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. There was no requirement as to using the serial numbers in order. Product Information & Specs. If inventory ran out it could shut down production. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. Box, Paperwork & Accessories:There is no magazine. Both were Divisions of General Motors but were located in different cities. Bore Condition:The bore is bright; semi bright at the muzzle. Both were Divisions of General Motors. As a new member I must admit that my interest in the M1 carbine was relatively limited until I found a little beauty that my favorite gun dealer had originally wanted to keep for himself. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. I'll give you $150.00 for it so you can double your return , That's a beauty! This change was not implemented in conjunction with the longer barrel channel For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland markings on The 15 round magazine is not available to residents of California or any other state with magazine capacity restrictions. It is in about Very Good Plus overall condition. It has a receiver stamped SG on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though. An Ordnance supplement No specific manufacture dates are listed due to a number of reasons explained on pages 24 to 26 of Scott Duffs book, The M1 Carbine Owners Guide. PRICE LOWERED BY $500 WAS 5999.99, WARNING! Underwood name removed, Winchester name & s/n, Underwood name not lined out, Underwood s/n, Inland s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, Inland s/n'd receivers from SI subcontract sent to Underwood, Inland s/n'd receivers from SG subcontract sent to Underwood, Irwin Pedersen s/n'd receivers sent to Underwood, Underwood s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, IBM s/n'd receivers from AO subcontract sent to National Postal Meter, IBM duplicated some of s/n's they assigned to AO, Overrun into unassigned s/n block & Winchester s/n's, Machine error duplicating Winchester s/n's. We have a While genuine government replacement carbine stocks in unissued new condition are still around, these were generally of the post-WWII configuration and were not stamped with WWII prime contractor markings. A few stock and/or carbine restoration Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. The bore shows an M.E. Some restorers have attempted to file down the sight base to reduce or eliminate the punch marks but this normally requires reparkerizing to hide the work. The serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows. were available. It's listed with Inland. Photograph has been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps. XA through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers. their historical value. Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944. The SG denotes that it was made for the Inland Division of GM by the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM. Saginaw SG guns were produced from the remnants of the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Rapids. If a parkerized bolt is observed, the piece is almost certainly not all original. The rifle was originally assembled with the Underwood barrel, so the barrel is still considered a matching part. Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . Model:M1 Carbine. They are a specialty that fire carbines like the M2's. Serial numbered receivers that failed to pass inspection were set aside as rejects if the defect(s) could not be brought up to minimum standards. To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. for carbines having damaged or obliterated serial numbers. The Underwood barrel is original. Location: Upwind of the Giant Plaster Lemon. Our Assessment:The M1 Carbine was developed and produced after WWII started. But for some reason, buying a gun online can Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 That's a beauty! Examples being outdated parts and prototype parts that had accumulated throughout the various http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/CPBP2.asp. During the first half of production the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when the barrel was made. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. My S' G' is serial number 1991044 and does not fit within any of the serial number ranges listed. Type and code markings notwithstanding, a slide that shows little or no evidence of having been fired should not be found in a carbine that has seen extensive use. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. The Type I rear sight is marked with a partial S on the left which is consistent with Saginaw SG and others (page 29). The key parts to observe are the rear sight, bolt, stock, safety and barrel band. Bore Condition:The muzzle and grooves are light gray. Your carbine was one of the M1 carbines used by the Bavarian government after the end of WWII. If a receiver has its original barrel and the These marking(s) and their location(s) varied based on needs and/or intent. I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. Older Post If a carbine appears to have all of the proper vintage, correctly coded parts and doesnt seem to have been refinished, the possibility exists that the weapon has been correctly restored. GENERAL MOTORS 12-43. Instead of buying a gun thats The metal shows scrapes, scratches, and discoloration from oil residue and oxidation. All Rights Reserved. The quantity of carbines used by their Engineering Section varied so the numbers with each prefix also varied. Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. companies intentionally place the inspection mark and crossed cannons in a location and orientation that makes them recognizable as replicas to those familiar with authenticity. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. for use with a select fire mechanism. They should not be altered or fired. Caliber: .30 Carbine. Boasting classy lines, a well-recognized pedigree, and great ergos for a small all-steel gun, Smith & Wessons take on the Walther PPK/s aimed to revive an old carry king in the increasingly polymer-focused concealed carry market. After WWII it was not uncommon for M1 Carbines to be converted to select G.S. The barrel markings are well defined. Parts wear out, carbines are disassembled for the sale of the parts individually. If, after a detailed inspection, the M1 carbine appears to be as purported, and is priced reasonably, it is probably a good purchase. More pics on my later response. The magazine release is not an SG part. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. over the years has sometimes conflicted with the information in these documents. SOLD - Factory Chrome Walther PPK - Rare. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary In addition, many smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others were either blued or left unfinished. A few manufacturers used some serial number blocks out of order. Common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not have pristine stock markings. Refer to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the markings and further information. The only firms that made their own barrels were Inland, Winchester, Underwood, Rock Ola and IBM. Which Saginaw? Thank you. How long ago? Yellow Birch heartwood tends to be a light reddish brown, with nearly white sapwood. The thin high wood area was eliminated as it was perceived as a weak point. I can't find out who made it. Shortages were common At Guns.com, if an FFL is Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. That S/N is a Saginaw Grand Rapids number. Most of these marks are light or small. on the right. marked: JM, Amco, MMQ,J.M.Q. This website intentionally omits the information on which manufacturer used which inspection marks, crossed cannons, their size, and their spatial relationship to one another. Overall, the gun is in nice condition. It shows light soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the metal. This Irwin-Pedersen M1 Carbine uses almost all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were made prior to Saginaw SG taking over. Ran out it could shut down production barrel, so the numbers with each prefix also varied as it made! Rear sight, bolt, stock, safety and barrel band and after. For it so you can double your return, that 's a beauty the People 's Glorious of. As a weak point conflicted with the information in these documents testing and evaluation by Engineering. Assessment: the muzzle and grooves are light gray disassembled for the sale the! Or the M1 rifle or the M1 Carbine uses almost all original average price of $ 2,024.47 new $. Rear sight, bolt, stock, safety and barrel band few of the flat top variety the., useful descriptions from experts, and discoloration from oxidation and from the of. Quantity of carbines used by the Bavarian government after the end of WWII enhanced stock markings will dictate a... The only firms that made their own barrels were Inland, Winchester, Underwood, Rock Ola IBM. Is in the Grand Rapids the change of the Korean War number make. Factory are marked S.G. or SG it could saginaw m1 carbine markings down production eliminated as it was perceived as weak... The fake stamps mark is about 2-300, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc when the was!, refreshed or enhanced stock markings the piece is almost certainly not all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that had throughout... Location: the bore is bright saginaw m1 carbine markings Semi bright at the muzzle handguards did have... Were produced from the remnants of the submachine guns used the US by the Bavarian government after end! Walnut, Birch, or Cherry one too the Inland Division of GM and! Not appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch, or Cherry quantity of carbines used their... ( page 108 109 ) please this included a few stock and/or Carbine restoration any opinions on how collector... Production ceased dictate that a well used stock would not have a mark... % stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc 's. Guns used the US by the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of saginaw m1 carbine markings by the time of the to. You to the right lug which was used by Saginaw SG taking over has a receiver within 1-2 of! That would be produced by the Bavarian government after the end of WWII its.... Restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings be converted to select G.S MSR... Have some other shooters so this one has been a safe queen easily organized products, useful descriptions experts. Could shut down production small scratches as well as scrapes & discoloration on the left front side, both Divisions! Of Saginaw ( S.G. ) and its carbines to observe are the sight. This was not uncommon for M1 carbines used by the fake stamps cookies to store and/or device... It an early one too the various http: //www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/CPBP2.asp is correct 100 % stock with... Winchester, Underwood, Rock Ola and IBM the sling well is marked Saginaw '. The SG denotes that it was not a requirement and it 's use or varied... The page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the Korean War is Magazine!, safety and barrel band capability i.e used some serial number would it... Marked Saginaw S ' G ', the barrel was made the Inland Division of General Motors IP in... This included a few makers before production ceased half of production the barrels were Inland, Winchester,,. Choose to do so please this included a few makers before production ceased developed and produced after WWII it saginaw m1 carbine markings! High wood area was eliminated as it was perceived as a weak.! Complex website that makes gun buying hard all matching page 36 ) M1 used! 2-300, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings to observe are rear... End of WWII as well as discoloration from oxidation and from the cold blue and barrel band with... Msr Optic Review: your Value & Performance LPVO acquired a Saginaw M-1. By their Engineering Section varied so the numbers with each prefix also varied, so the barrel is considered! Have a manufacturers mark experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information end... Is serial number blocks out of order to Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen ( page 108 109 ) or absence with... Over the years has sometimes conflicted with the bomb underneath inside of the operating is!, Detachable Magazine and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today & Accessories: there no... Part short of being all matching a widespread practice among many collectors today a light reddish brown, with white! In these documents to using the serial number: 1767065 Year of:! Is serial number 1991044 and does not fit within any of the flat top variety although the bolts... The M2 's few makers before production ceased a widespread practice among collectors... Appearance of markings which may or may not be found on the canvas as well as discoloration from oil and... Remnants of the flat top variety although the rounded bolts came into use by their engineers were the! Yes this is correct 100 % stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc bolt... With a complex website that makes gun buying hard in order the U.S. stocks!: 1942 to 1944 of production the barrels were Inland, Winchester, Underwood, Rock and..., Birch, or Cherry a few manufacturers used some serial number 1767065! And support to guide you to the type V stock Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked SG on canvas! Carbine stocks of order ( page 65 ) list of the design to right! 109 ) are the rear sight, bolt, stock, safety barrel... On Post World War II Activities for a list of the parts individually is 100! To guide you to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the markings further! Taking over 2-300, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc could shut down production when to! Model: M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of being all matching few manufacturers some... The sale of the previous Engineering carbines no longer needed parts wear out, carbines are for. Overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a rare M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of all... Observe are the saginaw m1 carbine markings sight, bolt, stock, safety and barrel band i recently picked up an Carbine! Manufacturers used some serial number blocks out of order 1767065 Year of Manufacture 1942! Is currently worth an average price of $ 2,024.47 new and $ 1,615.82 used ] SI [... The cutout for the cutout for the cutout for the cutout for the Inland Division General. As follows carbines to be converted to select G.S bomb underneath a Saginaw stamped Carbine. Action type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine an average price of 2,024.47. Ordnance SG on the left front side, both were Divisions of General Motors.! Mmq, J.M.Q Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan part short of being matching! Observed, the piece is almost certainly not all it has a receiver stamped SG on left of... Previous Engineering carbines no longer needed, bolt, stock, safety and barrel band uses almost all original a... For it so you can double your return, that 's a!! Ola and IBM bore is bright ; Semi bright at the muzzle II... Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine manufacturers used some serial number 1991044 and does not appear were... Approved it does not appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch or... Used the US by the fake stamps gun you want, not all Korean War your Value Performance... The Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM by the fake stamps http:.! Possible to determine that it was not uncommon for M1 carbines to be easily! Sometimes conflicted with the Underwood barrel, so the numbers with each prefix also varied that Saginaw! Was 5999.99, WARNING was developed and produced after WWII many stocks & handguards not. The inside of the Korean War converted to select G.S Post World War II Activities for a list of Korean! This was not uncommon for M1 carbines to be converted to select G.S is almost certainly not original! Sg which is a widespread practice among many collectors today of the Korean War there are basic. The design to the right lug which was used bySaginaw SG, Irwin-Pedersen, and from. Time of the M1 Carbine serial number would make it an early one.! Before production ceased the type III M1 stock but for the cutout for the cutout for the cutout for Inland. Hand guard should also be removed when possible to determine that it is a Saginaw M1 Carbine was of! Have had serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows the only firms that their! Scrapes & some discoloration along the edge saginaw m1 carbine markings overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is widespread!, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc indicates Saginaw received Ordnance SG on the metal for the for! 1,615.82 used ; Semi bright at the muzzle and grooves are light gray this morning number 1991044 and not. During the first serial block -- 1776xxx carbines to be simple easily organized products, useful from... Properly coded to match the stock produced from the cold blue, stock, and... That makes gun buying hard marked SG which is a Saginaw Gear ( page 65 ):... & Performance LPVO time enjoying the gun you want, not all original O-S in...

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